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Show Summary

In this episode of Admissions Straight Talk, Linda Abraham interviews David Kirschner, the Associate Dean of Admissions, Financial Aid, and Innovation at USC Gould School of Law. They discuss the distinctive elements of USC Gould’s JD program, including its small class size and student-centered approach. Dean Kirschner also highlights the flexibility and experiential learning opportunities available to students. They discuss the admissions process, including the acceptance of both the LSAT and GRE, the importance of engagement in an applicant’s background, and the components of a strong personal statement. Dean Kirschner shares his advice for wait-listed applicants, transfer applicants, and re-applicants. 

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Show Notes

Thanks for joining me for the 573rd episode of Admissions Straight Talk. 

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I’m delighted to have back on Admissions Straight Talk, David Kirschner, Associate Dean of Admissions, Financial Aid, and Innovation at USC Gould School of Law. Dean Kirschner earned his undergrad degree at USC, in Political Science and Film-Production.  He then earned his JD at California Western School of Law. He has been in law school admissions since 2006, when he joined Loyola Law as an Associate Director of Admissions. In 2011, he became Director of Admissions at USC Gould, and in 2016 he became USC Gould’s Associate Dean and Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid

Dean Kirschner, thanks for joining me again on Admissions Straight Talk. [1:59 ]

Thank you. I’m happy to be here, Linda.

I always like to start with this question in case some people may not have listened to the previous episode. Can you give us an overview of the more distinctive elements of USC Gould’s JD program? [2:03 ]

Certainly. I think one of the things that really sets our JD program apart, is the fact that it’s relatively small in class size, and that allows us to offer a very student-centered approach to the program. I like to tell prospective students, admitted students and enrolled students, that they’re not merely passers by during their three years in the JD program, but that they’re owners of their legal education. And our small size and our student-centered approach really do allow us to give students the opportunity to take ownership of their legal education.

How does that ownership manifest itself? Does it mean there’s more flexibility in the program and students have more opportunity to shape the program that they engage in? [2:51 ]

Absolutely. I think it’s both of those things. From a curricular standpoint, once a student gets beyond the first year required courses, in the second and third year, we have very few requirements, it’s a handful. There’s an upper division writing requirement, there is a required class on race, racism and the law, that’s a new addition since we last talked, and that’s something we’re very proud of, that’s now part of our curriculum, right. So there’s that upper division writing requirement, there’s the race, racism and the law course. And then there’s an experiential learning requirement, so we want to ensure that our students have some kind of practical experience before they graduate. Beyond those three requirements, it’s really up to the student to shape those second and third years in a way that they believe will most benefit them.

The USC Gould website emphasizes the flexibility of the curriculum as well as the experiential learning opportunities. Can you touch on the experiential learning opportunities? I know they’re quite broad. [3:49 ]

We look at experiential learning as a really broad umbrella. So there are clinical programs, which are certainly a major part of our experiential learning opportunity. So for listeners who may not know the difference between a clinical program and an externship, a clinical program is housed within the law school.It’s led by full-time clinical faculty at the Law School. Six of our seven clinics serve live clients, and we think it’s really important that students gain that experience, serving live clients via our clinical programs. 

Then there’s the externship program, so that’s where we send students off-campus, to get experience in a wide variety of legal settings. Being in Los Angeles gives us so much opportunity to tap into a very diverse legal market, right?  So whether it’s a traditional judicial externship, where a student may spend a semester, and most of ours are with Federal judges, in the Central District, they get incredible experience in a courtroom and in a judge’s chambers, or taking advantage of our location in the heart of the media entertainment capital, really, of the world – we have students working at movie studios, talent agencies, record labels and streamers – so tremendous opportunities for students to get that hands-on practical experience. So those are, probably, the two largest aspects of our experiential learning offerings, the clinical programs and the externship opportunities.

If somebody signs up for a clinic or an externship, is that a semester commitment? Is it a year-long commitment? Is it a two-year commitment? [5:33 ]

Externships tend to be semester-long commitments.

Our clinical programs tend to be year-long, but, for example, the Mediation Clinic, if a student does that in their 2L year and really enjoys it, they can then come back in their 3L year and do what we call our advanced Mediation Clinic where the level of case that they’re able to oversee, in the LA Superior Court, so these mediation students are actually working in the Superior Court. It goes from small claims in the first year of the clinic to potentially, unlimited civil disputes, in the second year of the clinic.

You said that most of the clinics are live cases. What is the clinic that’s not a live case? [6:23 ]

That’s a great question. So for us, the non-live client is our International Human Rights Clinic.

That clinic is focused on more policy-level issues, I mean, the reason that it’s not “live client.” I think is a wonderful reason, so students in the International Human Rights Clinic are working, most of the time, directly for judges on international tribunals or at The Hague. So those students get to spend time abroad, more often than not, and ra